Ransom Writers Chat

[TheShaman]

There's obviously no one-size fits all model. Some things work better as metaphors, some as similes, some where the simili comes before and some after. But I think the overall guide line is the flow and the rhyme schemes. And how easily/natural stuff flows off the tongue. The standard way to use similes was to point out a double meaning with the actual thing you were saying, mostly to make it fit with a rhyme creatively. I.e. Bender is literally saying "you've been lying on those tracks". That's something he would say in real life. He would never say "you're living like a damsel in distress" or something similar cuz it makes absolutely no sense in the real world. So it doesn't really make sense to flip it. Or to say "you're living like the ugly girl in a threesome". Cuz that's not the point. The point is that he's getting fucked over. And then you find a creative way to say that thing that simultaneously rhymes.

I think as battle rap grew, and texts upon texts of rhyme schemes for years and years multiplied, sometimes you just had to flip it to make it fit with a rhyme scheme. And then that became standard, like many things in battle rap that has just become cliché, like flipping letters around or using 9 or 22 or 45 or whatever. But personally I prefer rap that stays as close to something true or natural to say as possible. Like old school rap did. But that's just a preference, ofc.

And on this surprise effect of the punchline: One thing is the natural part of it, but the other is that it's about the rhyme. "Damsel in distress" is an awesome rhyme. "Lying on those tracks" is not. @Virbius , I'm not sure I get what you mean with the arc of resolution. I think most of the time you don't get the full meaning of a bar untill the whole bar has been spat anyway. But I guess there's also a certain cadence in modern battle rap (e.g. from the whole iBattle crowd) with the: "You're like a damsel in distress!! ..." "Why's that?!" "... Cuz you've been lying on those tracks!!" I guess it's just an aesthetic that's quite removed from how rap on beats used to be. And once again, boils down to personal preference.

@Slayerr , I second that it's really cool to be able to have these discussions, and even to know more about how you guys judge battles. I also want to write and judge more bars, but sometimes life just gets in the way. But hopefully, there'll be a surge of activity around here at some point anyway..

[mal diction]

@Slayerr
although i dont vote,(cus nobody likes my point of view) i still read and i think, though you feel you've been slacking off, you've gotten mountains better since RIA(rap is alive): one of the best sites i've been to .. just dont be so wordy.. you and FaQ have that problem.. the rhyming part will come.. and if u need help there just lookup rhyme words on google

[Slayerr.]

This is a bit demoralizing but very true, I'll rewatch rap battles but rarely read old text battles.
.

In fairness I heard @miracle spends a lot of time in the archives

[Slayerr.]

@Slayerr
although i dont vote,(cus nobody likes my point of view) i still read and i think, though you feel you've been slacking off, you've gotten mountains better since RIA(rap is alive): one of the best sites i've been to .. just dont be so wordy.. you and FaQ have that problem.. the rhyming part will come.. and if u need help there just lookup rhyme words on google

Cheers mate I forget about RIA! Used to love that site but in fairness i was 15 years old on there so would hope I’ve got a bit better haha

Also you should vote bro, your point of view is a valid as the next man’s

[EyeDealIstic]

This... all of this not-so-masculine bickering, it's why I don't battle and especially why I don't provide feedback.

This shit is less noble than if you were arguing about who has the cutest purse.

[Virbius]

@Virbius , I'm not sure I get what you mean with the arc of resolution. I think most of the time you don't get the full meaning of a bar untill the whole bar has been spat anyway

I mean if the double entendre comes first then it’s not recognisable as a double entendre until they reach the resolution at the end. It’s not clear to the reader that they’ve missed a second meaning until they get to the simile which essentially decodes it.

If it’s the other way, with the simile first, then there’s very clearly an element which is left unresolved until the entendre at the end of the bar. It suggests the question ‘why is it like suchandsuch’? and leaves it hanging for a little while before giving the answer. It’s a kind of delayed gratification and I think it’s more appealing to the part of our brains which is evolved to seek patterns and give a neurochemical reward for finding them.

[EyeDealIstic]

My case was immediately proven. I am an oracle.

[Bag Mandela]

I mean if the double entendre comes first then it’s not recognisable as a double entendre until they reach the resolution at the end. It’s not clear to the reader that they’ve missed a second meaning until they get to the simile which essentially decodes it.

If it’s the other way, with the simile first, then there’s very clearly an element which is left unresolved until the entendre at the end of the bar. It suggests the question ‘why is it like suchandsuch’? and leaves it hanging for a little while before giving the answer. It’s a kind of delayed gratification and I think it’s more appealing to the part of our brains which is evolved to seek patterns and give a neurochemical reward for finding them.

This works well with more complex comparisons with multiple components, probably at a point of conclusion in a verse too, but I can't imagine stuff like Pat's "This something you never seen before, like a baby pigeon" or Tony D's Fabrice Muamba bar working the other way round

lol @EyeDealIstic twice

[Virbius]

Haha well that example doesn’t work either way, I’ve seen way too many baby pigeons. They nest in a tree in my garden every year and tend to fall out. I once spent a large part of a summer guarding one from my neighbour’s cat.

[TheShaman]

I mean if the double entendre comes first then it’s not recognisable as a double entendre until they reach the resolution at the end. It’s not clear to the reader that they’ve missed a second meaning until they get to the simile which essentially decodes it.

If it’s the other way, with the simile first, then there’s very clearly an element which is left unresolved until the entendre at the end of the bar. It suggests the question ‘why is it like suchandsuch’? and leaves it hanging for a little while before giving the answer. It’s a kind of delayed gratification and I think it’s more appealing to the part of our brains which is evolved to seek patterns and give a neurochemical reward for finding them.

Ah, I get what you mean now. The same kind of Jeffrey iBattle hypeman "What's that?" kind of interjection where we know something is coming. But yeah, imo this also messes up the meaning of what is actually being said. Or basically, the double meaning takes precedence over the actual meaning. E.g. we introduce some complete gibberish first, and then explain why it isn't gibberish, instead of starting out with a normal sentence and then building on top of it. I don't think we feel as if we're missing a double meaning if something is being said straight up first. I think we just take it at face value, and then get the gratification of the double meaning afterwards. But yeah, both are ofc valid ways of writing. I guess I just personally prefer the "old" one, where it's a little bit understated, and where the weight of the meaning of the sentence is still on the face value part. In that way, I guess it's also still possible to write stuff with no double meanings because it's just actually what you mean. Like Math said to Chilla: "You look for double meanings cuz you're never meaning your words".

Btw I never actually thought about this before, so pretty cool to get some reflections on it.

[mal diction]

@Slayerr

15!?!?!? so you're 26 now... lol no offense, but my 26-year-old self would own lol
@Bag Mandela what about a poetry league after this?

[Bag Mandela]

@Slayerr

15!?!?!? so you're 26 now... lol no offence, but my 26-year-old self would own lol
@Bag Mandela what about a poetry league after this?

This shit is poetry, on HGH & PEDs. Yeah we could get it cracking if we've got enough people up for it, I don't mind running a poetry tourney but I don't want to vote or take part, it's just not my thing. I was pretty keen for the 2v2 with partner-swapping each round but it would be good to have something in between this and that to break it up.

Btw - there's still the $60 mal diction award that needs to go to someone for something. Other than the finishing position reward || I was gonna do prizes for best setup, battle of the tourney & bar of the tourney. Not sure if you wanna choose one of those or something else, I'll leave it up to you. Also, I think Slayerr. is 30.

[EyeDealIstic]

Haha well that example doesn’t work either way, I’ve seen way too many baby pigeons. They nest in a tree in my garden every year and tend to fall out. I once spent a large part of a summer guarding one from my neighbour’s cat.

Lol you have long built at reputation from using your body to protect someone elses bird from some puss.

[mal diction]

This shit is poetry, on HGH & PEDs. Yeah we could get it cracking if we've got enough people up for it, I don't mind running a poetry tourney but I don't want to vote or take part, it's just not my thing. I was pretty keen for the 2v2 with partner-swapping each round but it would be good to have something in between this and that to break it up.

Btw - there's still the $60 mal diction award that needs to go to someone for something. Other than the finishing position reward || I was gonna do prizes for best setup, battle of the tourney & bar of the tourney. Not sure if you wanna choose one of those or something else, I'll leave it up to you. Also, I think Slayerr. is 30.

put it in the pot for the winner of the tourney

[Bag Mandela]

what are everyone's thoughts / suggestions for battle of the tourney contenders?
Don't be shy about putting your own battles in the mix

put it in the pot for the winner of the tourney

my G